I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. You arent a gunfighter, either. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. My gun just went off! This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. LOL! A fine of up to $10,000. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. It has been flawless so far. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. Really? Dude, your story is THREE years old. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. I also have a manual safety. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Thats deflecting from the real issue. Fine. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. There were a lot of changes. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. JTF-2 is the only unit in. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! He was told to shoot two rounds. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . Before the madness SIGS were expensive. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. Kyle . Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. Grow up, you aint all that! Sound familiar? Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? That took a lot. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Too Many Accidents The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! Where is that defect now? Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Theres a couple of possibilities. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. U.S. lawsuits Either the gun is defective or its not. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. They function as commanded every time. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. I have no idea. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. And thats just my opinion. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. in Capitalvania. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. Excellent work. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. The problem was strikers. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. And have the dropping 320 go off? It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. Because its flat out bull**it. 1:07. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. ALL OF THEM. Weird how that might happen. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. Canadian soldier. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. But Shatner? If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. Ron, Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. Its a novelty, its got issues! While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. D. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. I agree. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. (It wasnt my gun). Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. brakes, remember? Thats the same. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. It did not originally have this. . three changes to the original design. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. I didnt even touch it! The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). 3. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. Would you? In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result.