Note that passwords are case-sensitive. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. Some cars have both an engine coolant temp switch & a refrigerant temp switch, others only the refrigerant switch. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. I'm not sure. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. R134a. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. R134a refrigerant is lighter than R12. R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. And I already have so much time and money in this a/c project that I REFUSE to cut any corners as small as a TEV.It doesn't help that most people in the business (at least that I come in contact with, present company excluded, of course!) Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. . In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. Expansion Valve. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. That would be the "black death" syndrome. As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. What is a T/C?4. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. I just got some hi/lo side gauges so I'm going to take readings, if they are needed. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. It won't be optimal, though. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. They have no moving parts. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. So you could likely put off buying those new hoses just a bit longer if you wanted. An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. I'm having the same concern. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. 3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. Jun 17, 2011. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. The evap is hard to get at. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. Blows pretty hard on full. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. ). difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. That's a lot isn't it? There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. . If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. 5) A/C System Failure. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. Poc temps desprs van decidir unir els dos webs sota el nom de Xarxa Catal, el conjunt de pgines que oferirien de franc sries doblades i/o subtitulades en catal. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. Just leave it alone for now. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. R1234yf. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. we convert older systems where i work all the time and they work fine. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits cant be used, however to be used wisely. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. The difference really shows up on the high side. I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Big . Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. . Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. James10952001. You'll get marginally better performance out of the change as the expansion valve is matches the refrigerant characteristics. Is there a graph? R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. Very nice! It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. Hope this helps. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? had writing on the side that said R134a. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. of refrigerant insulation tape. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. ambulance tailgate conversion Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). . Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. SO here's my question. Helical and Serpentine coils. If 50 degrees across the cond. I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. Sense ells no existirem. This is because R134a. It won't be optimal, though. What effect would it have on performance, if any? $21 . Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. Its highest value is 1. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Any ideas from the info above? The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. Since then, the industry standard has been R134a, which is an efficient replacement. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. Nice to use new gadgets! MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. Look deep into the fins. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. Thanks again. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Any suggestions, or do you need to know the hi/lo readings? Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? might be due to charge or different compressor and age. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. Also called the orifice tube. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? Biggest you can fit in there is best. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). B. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. I put one in my old daily driver '79 Chevy tank (r-12), and it really made a difference. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . (The .133 is the 300D Turbo).So, what does your compressor look like?B. Generally this works well for the whole system. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. Very interesting! Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. R134a requires a different oil. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required. Crap! R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . An extra half ounce? The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. Your old hoses of course will not fit. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12.