Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. Give today. OK. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. Patrick Tate: Well. Oh you saw him online. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. We'll push great photos to the front page. Thank you. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. Well let's talk a little bit about that. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. John. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. Yes. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. And those are not the same things. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. John thanks. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. These were normal everyday folks. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. You know interactions are pretty unusual. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. Caller: Are probably. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Caller: Oh yeah. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Have it reported down in the Keene area. What's going on. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. Sam. Share. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Absolutely. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. Thanks for calling. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. Your support makes this news available to everyone. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. Select image for larger view. Just. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. "Of those three to five reports,. It was not a bobcat. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. I tracked cats and all the western states. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Well thanks for sharing. Is that typically what was happening there. Post your sightings and NH photos here! So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. By Eric Orff. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. I'll send it to you. Thanks for a great thanks. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. There was a lot of DNA evidence. They just end up in these places. I'm Peter B yellow. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Okay. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Seems reasonable! Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. There's no attraction. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. Like why would you want one wildlife. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. Well I can't tell you what you saw. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. Part II. Rick your thoughts. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. So there's even debate about that very subject. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. That's pretty elaborate. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. Thank you. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Think you've seen a mountain lion. Pelosi story here we go. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Caller: Yeah. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. So what those ranges. You're on the air. Okay. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. One was in Shelton. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Right. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. Peter Biello: Wow. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. N.H. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between.